Talk:Rank
'Latest Ranks' latest ranks from gw-freaks.com *r9 : 4665 *r10: 7750 *r11: 11900 *r12: 20000 *r13: 34500 *r14: 65000 *r15: 100000 i have NO CLUE which numbers may be correct... but at least till r10, maybe 11 we should find some ppl who can tell us^^ ::Rank 14 has been discovered to be "Balthazars Hero" at 60,000 Fame. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 203.28.159.135 (talk • ) 09:12, 26 July 2006 (CDT). I have talked personally to the title bearer of the only rank 13 emote up to date, Deangjang Sama. He told me that it is 60,000 fame to get to Hero of Balthazar, but I am not sure if it is that or Balthazar's Hero. --IxI Raiden IxI 01:21, 30 July 2006 (CDT) :The above list was posted on 17th october last year btw — Skuld 01:37, 30 July 2007 (CDT) Skill Does gaining rank give you skill points? It used to in the betas. Kidburla 22:41, 16 March 2006 (CST) Titles for Ranks Where are these rank names from, anyway? The Prima guide? I don't have a manual so I can't check there. I assume "harbringer" is a typo... but if these are just from the guide the column should be removed. --Fyren 10:32, 17 October 2005 (EST) about the names... i only found em here, i vote 4 remove. --HJT 12:42, 17 October 2005 (EST) :The names where part of the hero display back in beta. No idea when they got removed, but obviously that part is obsolete. --Xeeron 20:20, 17 October 2005 (EST) Rank and Faction faction doesn't count from the conmpetition arenas? only HoH? Rank is based on FAME, not faction, gaining tons of faction will not increase your rank by 1 inch, only winning in Tombs will. --Karlos 06:28, 21 November 2005 (UTC) :We might point this out in the article, as this is a common misconception. --Tetris L 06:41, 21 November 2005 (UTC) Rank 12 Phoenix Emote Is the Phoenix-emote real or the same joke as with the dragon? Does anybody has got a screenshit of the rank 12 emote? —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 80.132.109.201 (talk • ) 07:05, 25 November 2005 (CDT). :I tend to believe it. Some top PvP players have confirmed it. See the forum threads that I listed under User talk:FireFox#Phoenix Rank Emote. No screenshot yet, though. -- 14:26, 25 November 2005 (UTC) ::Finally, screenshots (and a video, even)!! -- 07:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC) Deer? That doesn't look like a deer to me. It's an elk if I ever saw one, and I have. | Chuiu 15:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC) :Well, officially its a deer, but ppl tend to call it 'moose', 'bambi' or other nice names^^ - only bambi-teams formin in here? - i have finally my moose :-D --HJT 13:28, 2 December 2005 (UTC) ::I got my bambi, :D Tomoko Pink Angel 13:52, 12 January 2007 (CST) need a note for attribute rank I couldn't figure out how to write the disambiguation note, but because Rank can also be referring to the attribute level, we need a note at the top of the page redirecting to Attribute. -PanSola 12:50, 4 December 2005 (UTC) :I don't think it's necessary to place a Disambiguation page as they are named differently but a note at the top of the page might be helpful. In any case check your Talk page, I put the link for Disambiguation there.--William Blackstaff 17:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC) ::Umm, the term Rank is ambiguous. I have 12 ranks in Swordmanship, that won't give me a deer emote. But if Rank had otherwise meant nothing for PvP, then it would at least have been a redirect page that sends ppl to Attribute, like how health regeneration doesn't have its own article, and all references of it links to the Health article instead. But because Rank also has a "primary meaning", whatever we would've done with the Rank for attributes, we would need to put a link to it from the top of this article. -PanSola 18:58, 4 December 2005 (UTC) :::I heard that on the Guild Wars Guru forums, somebody proved that the emote was in fact an elk, not a deer. There were even diagrams. Must have been an interesting discussion. —''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' 12.215.87.231 (talk • ) 00:58, 27 May 2006 (CDT). Rank Discrimination Getting a rank emote helps a lot in finding capable groups in the Tombs, since many players engage in "rank discrimination". This implies players who engage in rank discrimination tends to be in capable groups. Is that the case? -PanSola 21:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC) :In general, any groupformed with people that don't even know each other (which is where someone might care about rank) is probably not going to do very well. I personally have little faith in ranks, but at least it proves someone's spent time playing. I think the most neutral way to put it is that it helps in finding high rank random groups. --Fyren 08:56, 10 December 2005 (UTC) Is it me, or is this a catch 22, paradox, contradiction, whatever. To gain fame, and therefore rank, you must win HA battles... But to get in a good team, with chances to win said battles... You must have rank. (Makes a gun with index and thumbfinger, and points at temple. Pulls back hand/gun as if in recoil. Uses other hand to show spray from other side of head) Agreed with writer above; If you want to team, you need rank, you need rank to play HA, but again, you need team, again, need rank. I can keep this forever, but nah. Thanks to that, we can't get no new blood on HA :/ Higher Ranks Do we have any confirmation of any of the ranks greater than 12? These were all added at once, and last time I checked the highest rank given in game was 12 (although we still don't have screenshots of rank 12). --Nkuvu 10:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC) :Bleh. I removed this article from my watchlist a few weeks ago since people stopped screwing with it. Guess I shouldn't have. About the fame numbers, I don't know. I don't really care if they're deleted or not. About the rank 12 emote, right. No one's shown a screenshot. --Fyren 23:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC) ::Per Gaile Gray and The Frog, as of Jan 7 2006, no one has achieved level 12 (I have a screenshot of the comment, but no date is visible on the screen - anyone know a link to current Gaile or Frog in-game postings?) --Barek 14:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC) Protect Page? Any thoughts on protecting this page until some screenshots of the new (possibly Phoenix) emote is found? It could be done like the Unique Items List with the link to an admin's talk page (I have no problem with it being mine). --Rainith 13:27, 30 December 2005 (UTC) :I was just about to suggest this. It seems like it's a nice target for overeager editors and vandals. --Nkuvu 14:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC) ::I think if someone just sits at the Tomb of Preverbial (sp?) Kings and asks around what the 4th emote of rank I'm sure someone would eveuntally resond and be more than happy to supply a screen shot. --DragonWR12LB 14:48, 30 December 2005 (UTC) :::If that was true there would be a screenshot of it on ever forum. Even though I did re-watchlist this, I don't think it gets vandalized enough to warrant protection. --Fyren 17:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC) Went back to Rainith's version. The anonymous comment about the alpha testers isn't good info. "They know it's a but they can't tell us, but they actually did" isn't very illuminating. If one of them did say something, they didn't do it in public. But you can personally feel good about knowing what the emote is. If you want to post it here, try to make it verifiable. --Fyren 17:56, 2 January 2006 (UTC) I think the most recent edit is yet another vandel, (or at least someone who is very misguided, if I were to assume good faith). But since I'm not an authority on PvP, I really have no way of telling whether the edit is true or legit. The reason I'm NOT going to assume good faith is because of the recent history of this article has been filled with anon edits and reverts. Still, I'm just posting this note here instead of reverting it myself, because I really don't know. -PanSola 18:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC) Cooldown? anyone know exactly how long time till you can use the emote again after you've used it once? :I don't believe emotes have cooldowns. If it does however, it's only a matter of seconds. — Galil 20:05, 31 July 2006 (CDT) About 10 seconds. "You have used that command too recently. Please try again later." — Skuld 15:07, 5 August 2006 (CDT) Spoofing by saying you're almost there That's not really spoofing. The party leader knows very well that if you say you are not exactly R6, you could be R3, 4 or 5. He is then making a decision to assume you are R6. Not really a spoof, but a gamble. --Karlos 22:26, 6 April 2006 (CDT) Factions update Factions has refaced the rank system, it is now a title. We need to gather each of the title names and put them here. --Draygo Korvan 21:23, 25 April 2006 (CDT) :See Character Title. — Stabber ✍ ::I was told by a guild mate that rank 12 was Imminent Hero. --Draygo Korvan 21:55, 25 April 2006 (CDT) :::And I was told by one that it was King's Hero. But it is third hand info. The only one I am sure of is subjugating conquering (my own lowly rank). — Stabber ✍ 21:56, 25 April 2006 (CDT) ::::Well once I see more solid information we can fix it. --Draygo Korvan 22:01, 25 April 2006 (CDT) :::::By the way, I've seen screenshots of all except rank 9 in the current version of the article. Your guildie was half right in that it's "Eminent", not "Imminent". My guildie apparently had the matchup between rank and title right. — Stabber ✍ 12:32, 26 April 2006 (CDT) ::::::Makes sense to me. Now I just have to ask someone who is rank 12 what the rank 13 title is. In addition we should be able to figure out how much fame is needed exactly using the progress bar. --Draygo Korvan 13:01, 26 April 2006 (CDT) :::::::Rank still technically exists. Using the /rank command below rank 3 still gives you the "You must have rank 3 or higher to use that command." error message, and I believe rank emote is still the official term. Even if the term was officially discontinued, it'd still be player slang. -- Gordon Ecker 23:27, 4 September 2006 (CDT) Rank When do you earn rank points and how much do you earn? Is it like faction in random arena where you earn 25 each kill? Icyangel Strawberry 12:23, 26 July 2006 (CDT) :Fame. Please read the page 62.255.32.17 12:33, 26 July 2006 (CDT) Rank spike - fame penality? I've heard from a few guildies that if a team does a /rank emote over some dead body in HA (after won match) and someone report them, they get their fame reduced. Is that true? If so how much is the penalty? : Amilo Robin 20px 17:40, 17 October 2006 (CDT) :My educated guess: This is 100% made up. --Xeeron 07:20, 18 October 2006 (CDT) ::actually, it is true. a close friend of mine was with me in HA a while ago, and he had just gotten his bambi in the prior run, so he ranked over someones corpse after the match was over. next day he logs in and hes just shy of r3 again. we dont know how much it was reduced because we werent keeping track after he hit r3, but it was something in the range of 10-20 fame. obviously not many people report being ranked with screenshots, and its possible that not even all of those reported have their fame reduced. — 13:28, 23 January 2007 (CST) ranking spike ftw. I cant keep count of how many times my guild have Bambi rank spiked high ranked pugs after winning. THERES YOUR RANK DISCRIMINATION RIGHT THERE!! omfg a rank 12, dont let the noob in the team! :D :::All that rumor is is an attempt to make you believe someone had more fame than they actually did. Gaile has confirmed that Fame will never be taken from a player for such an action. --Ruricu (Talk • ) 14:47, 23 July 2007 (CDT) Rank spoofing I think it may be useful to state exactly what is illegal about rank spoofing as defined in the last section of the article. Is it because the selling (and/or buying) of second-hand GW accounts is illegal? Is it illegal to misrepresent your competence? --The Extremist User, Talk] 12:25, 21 November 2006 (CST) I think it is obvious enough that the Buying of the account is illegal...If acting smarter than you really are was against the rules I fear that noone would be left unbanned :) . But touching up the last sentence to say "Buying of accounts" or whatever is against the rules is fine. - Former Ruling 01:49, 25 November 2006 (CST) I agree with The Extremist. I think the wording is poor, and that whenever you mention that something is against the "rules," you should be specific. You can't be vague and simply hope that people will might pick up on your intent; the Wiki is for noobs too. I'll reword the last sentence.--Ninjatek 10:55, 20 December 2006 (CST) Last three ranks I noticed that the last 3 ranks have a link to each campaign. In prophecies the King ( King's hero) was in danger from the charr. In Factions the Emperor was in danger (emperor's hero) from Shiro. In Nightfall the god's were in danger (balthazaar's hero) from Abaddon. Maybe the fourth rank will be linked to the fourth campaign. This may be nothing. Juts thought I would share.Two thousand health 20:46, 10 December 2006 (CST) :Eh... not likely. Emperor, King and insert-God-name-here are, IRL, high up "positions" in society; having a King's Hero etc isn't a huge surprise. -Auron 16:25, 11 December 2006 (CST) rank formula http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10089457 — Skuld 07:56, 12 December 2006 (CST) : Nice can some1 add it, al the "DONT CHANGE THIS DONT CHANGE THAT" fraks me out Kurd 18:52, 22 December 2006 (CST) ::the forumula is noticably aberant is certan spaces. it looks to be reverse fit to the curve, and probably wasn't in the dev's thinking pattern. remove? --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 22:32, 4 May 2007 (CDT) :::It looks like a case of finding a pattern where there really wasn't one, even if you can find a model to mostly explain it. -Gildan Bladeborn 16:07, 6 August 2007 (CDT) Rank 15 I've heard someone hit R14, can anyone confirm (I believe the person is in Kiss) [[User:The black dahlia murder|''TBDMurder]]20px 02:22, 30 December 2006 (CST) :Doubt it, Kiss isn't a very good guild Tomoko Pink Angel 13:52, 12 January 2007 (CST) ::Where do you get that idea? [[User:The black dahlia murder|TBDMurder]] 16:53, 22 February 2007 (CST) leeloof got r14 ? Was anyone in Kiss other than Sama even close? Bambi Can we add a note about r3-5 as a lot of ppl call it bambi it would be trivia :No, it's a deer not a bambi. Tomoko Pink Angel 13:52, 12 January 2007 (CST) ::yeah, but the community in game calls this emote "bambi" so therefore it would qualifiy as a note, or trivia. (as much as i hate the darn thing) -TehBuG- :::Might be worth mentioning. We also call the Phoenix "Giant Pidgeon" though. --Silk Weaker 21:36, 15 February 2007 (CST) Hey (Rank Discrimination) "Finding a good, active PvP-oriented Guild can be greatly helpful in gaining this initial experience and rank." :That's not quite true, as most good, active, PvP oriented guilds discriminate in rank as well.--Nog64Talk 23:05, 19 February 2007 (CST) ::Much less so then random PuGs. In guilds, especically if you've had experience playing together before, GvG, HA, TA, or whatever, they'd be able to judge you in terms of skill and not rank. It would be hard to get into these guilds to start with, but they do seek out new blood now and then, or perhaps it could be a "why not" thing. They could kick you if they don't like you, no? That's how I got my first ranks. I join some guild looking for GvG, but they ended up to be pretty heavy on HA, so I get pulled into this vortex that is mindless fame farming. Sigh. --Silk Weaker 16:53, 24 February 2007 (CST) Gaile Gray Gaile Gray recently confirmed rank 15 is the maximum rank possible [[User:The black dahlia murder|TBDMurder]] 16:53, 22 February 2007 (CST) :Info added. Turk Nagona 16:45, 24 February 2007 (CST) um, they haven't even made an emote yet have they, least finalised it? — Skuld 16:49, 24 February 2007 (CST) :You need 40.000 fame from r14 to r15 so there is no need of an emote by now.--89.56.9.136 17:46, 24 February 2007 (CST) ::Duh. The emote mentioned in the article is dragon, hence the above question — Skuld 18:35, 24 February 2007 (CST) R15 info I added R15 info. Picture in ATS testing of R15 here, was a GM. Also, Gaile Gray confirmed it's a Dragon. [[User:The black dahlia murder|TBDMurder]] 00:42, 10 April 2007 (CDT) :Don't add info to articles based on what you see in the alpha servers. Things on alpha may not get moved over to live as they are. If you can provide a source for Gaile saying something, please do so. --Fyren 06:17, 10 April 2007 (CDT) :It was on GWG forums, I don't remember where I found it. All I know is that she said that Rank 15 is max, and that it's a dragon emote. [[User:The black dahlia murder|TBDMurder]] 21:41, 10 April 2007 (CDT) It's not confirmed that it's dragon -- EDIT No you didnt, I added the R15 info last night and posted the original image link up. You modified the info I put in! Check the history, my name is there Elpedro! :it wasn't there when I edited it. [[User:The black dahlia murder|TBDMurder]] 21:41, 10 April 2007 (CDT) Without breaking 1rv, I'm going to refer us to this edit. --Armond Warblade (talk) 00:04, 16 April 2007 (CDT) Possible Emote? http://trailer.onlinewelten.com/videos,id1154,guild_wars_jack_mc_daniels_special_1.html At about 50 minutes left, the frog does the Rabit emote, I don't understand any of the language there, anyway, thought it'd be worth sharing. :Wow, that video is SICK. M s4 14:37, 19 June 2007 (CDT) ::If that's really the r15 emote I'm pretty sure the current r14s will stop HAing. Railin 14:42, 19 June 2007 (CDT) :::Why? Bunnies are awesome. M s4 14:46, 19 June 2007 (CDT) :LmFaO. That video was the funniest thing i've ever seen that had something to do with Guild Wars.--Darksyde Never Again 01:33, 30 August 2007 (CDT) Formula Something makes me think this formula is wrong. Maybe the fact that 7776 is too random a number and half the ranks using that formula are off by a decent amount. Im thinking that instead of it being 7776 its something like N^A x (Dx(R/10) where R is rank and all the other letters are random variables. But then again...i could be wrong --Atroso 02:46, 14 July 2007 (CDT) :Ok so i'm gonna sound nooby here, but what is the formula? I saw it a the bottom of the page, what is it showing?--Darksyde Never Again 11:41, 30 August 2007 (CDT) Hero (title) ok this has the same but more info than the Hero (title) page. And what about the rank for HB? —[[User:JediRogue|'♥Jedi♥Rogue♥']] 20:35, 15 July 2007 (CDT) :Nobody calls that "rank." If you say "I'm r3," people will think "hero 3." If you say "I'm commander3," or "champ3," or "glad3," people will know what you're talking about specifically. Even guilds are "ranked," but everyone says "guild rank" instead of just "rank." -Auron 20:57, 15 July 2007 (CDT) Rank Loop Added that, common loop. Annoying to people without rank already like me =( Experienced 21:20, 3 August 2007 (CDT) Animations? Should someone add animations for the ranks like in the Dance article? Delgadude 11:06, 9 August 2007 (CDT) Major Vandalism This page should be locked or something, some guy just wiped the page bit by bit. I barely recovered it.--Gigathrash 12:40, 13 August 2007 (CDT) :If the threat has passed, I'd like to request an unlock; also, how hard can it be to undo vandalism on a wiki? (no offense intended. I've done it a lot on 'pedia, and there seems to be a fairly robust system in place.) 82.152.98.167 18:55, 19 September 2007 (CDT) R15 Emote I seriously think we should put what the emote is atm and say real emote not implemented yet. --Hellbringer 20:32, 25 August 2007 (CDT) :Uh... what? What's the emote "atm" if the emote hasn't been implemented yet? -Auron 15:56, 29 August 2007 (CDT) ::atm is at the moment the emote right now is phoenix. --Hellbringer 15:59, 29 August 2007 (CDT) :::Who is r15 and is flashing a phoenix? I was under the impression leeloof still had about 20k fame to go. -Auron 16:24, 29 August 2007 (CDT) ::::Well GMs got r15 and the emote is phoenix cuz the real emote hasnt been implemented into the game. --Hellbringer 16:39, 29 August 2007 (CDT) :::::We don't document test servers, we document the game. As soon as someone in the game (on real servers) flashes a 15 and its a phoenix, we can put it in. Until then, it is indeed unknown. -Auron 17:29, 29 August 2007 (CDT) ::::::Alright thats cool with me. Hope someone gets it soon because the anticipation is annoying. --Hellbringer 18:25, 29 August 2007 (CDT) :::::::I'll look for a R15, and when I find him, I will lol and say "Wut life?" [[User:Readem|'Readem']] ([[User talk:Readem|''talk]]* ) 18:34, 29 August 2007 (CDT) (reset indent)lol that would be hilarious. --Hellbringer 20:26, 29 August 2007 (CDT) :I think Leeloof got the r15 title, did he not? My old guild guested him to our hall and had him show us his r15, but sadly I was away at dinner. But, if anyone of you know his IGN, check withum. The Paintballer (T/ ) 00:11, 12 September 2007 (CDT) ::It's Leeloof Esp or Blue Jazz, but no, he's still r14. -Auron 12:33, 21 October 2007 (UTC) Locked? How come this page is locked? I was going to try to do something about the set-in-stone "THIS FORMULA GIVES RANK EXACTLY" calculation explanation, but I can't! 82.152.98.167 18:53, 19 September 2007 (CDT) :It's locked from anonymous edits. Just register and you can edit it freely. --Kale Ironfist 19:00, 19 September 2007 (CDT) ::Apparently not... maybe I need to wait a little while. Rawling4851 10:03, 25 September 2007 (CDT) :::Ah, I really wish I COULD edit this. There's no reason to use the 7776 level as a base; one could just as easily use the n=15 case, which would look cleaner. It's also possible that using a different level would reduce the overall error... what's the point, anyway? The rank progressions of Champion, Gladiator, Hero, Treasure Hunter and Wisdom also follow similar patterns, but none of them have a "formula" listed. Rawling4851 05:07, 26 September 2007 (CDT) 1rv User:Korytyler21 has reverted me revert, which breaks 1RV and his edits are also incorrect, I belive. Can an admin settle this? --Shadowcrest 03:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :He's in the discussion here right now. Please focus on settling the article issue here instead of pursuing the policy violation, thank you. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 03:39, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::The thing is, I was trying to without breaking 1RV myself. I only asked for admin help so they could change it back without me breaking 1rv. =/ And the antlers do look more elk-ish than deer-ish, though the face looks more thin like a deers, but I guess it can stay elk for now. EDIT: forgot to sign --Shadowcrest 03:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :::The 1RV policy is specifically against "reverting it to the version before someone broke the 1RV policy" (worded differently). I wrote that in there, because it's simply not gonna help. If I revert it, it's still gonna be breaking the policy because the RV is between versions/content, not between editors. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 03:51, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::::So it is. You win... this time :D --Shadowcrest 03:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC) Elk I changed this to elk because if you compare the pictures its easy to see that its an elk http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/living/graphics/elk1.jpg Look at the antlers -User:korytyler21 :Personally I think the antlers look more like those of a reindeer. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 03:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::I don't see the reindeer, the horns are more pointy and the reindeer ones are not so much -User:korytyler21 :::the elk antlers are more curvy/round, the reindeer and emote ones are more straight+angles. - User:PanSola (talk to the ) 05:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC) Elk and reindeer are both subtypes of deer. Should we look for a list of all types of deer and in-depth study the antlers shape for the best match? -32.150.202.82 06:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :"it's a human" :"no, it's an ele, look at his wand" :"actually it looks more like a ritualist wand..." :"don't forget monks have wands too" -32.150.202.82 06:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC) There are clear differences between a 'deer' and an 'elk's antlers User:korytyler21 :Sorry, but elk have antlers that are typically much larger than their head, whereas deer have smaller antlers. Google "elk" and "deer" on the 'images' section and you will see that this is clearly a deer. Besides, everyone (but you, apparently) calls the emote a deer (or 'bambi', who is a deer). Even the official wiki calls it a deer, so I suggest reverting it back. Kokuou 07:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :dude, elks ARE deers. This is like a dabate on whether a picture is showing a human or a Phillipino based on the shape of the lips. -32.148.46.128 08:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :Here's a challenge: describe the visual difference between an elk and a Red Deer. -32.145.200.49 09:50, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::The point isn't whether it's a deer or an elk; only ANet knows that. But the large majority of the GW population calls it a deer, so it should be called a deer. Kokuou 11:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :::By that logic, it would be a "bambi," not a deer. -Auron 11:04, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::::Well, I mean deer in terms of an actual animal/species name (like tiger, wolf, etc.). Kokuou 11:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :::::Kokuou: elk IS a species of deer. If something is an elk, then it is a deer. Your wording keeps implying an elk is NOT a deer, a mentality which I believe is encouraging the problem. Also, I don't think we should use "what most players call it" or "what the official wiki says" as standards. The former is subject to "rigional differences" while the latter source isn't usually the "official" word anyways. The GuildWiki should document what "is", and leave "what most players call it" as a side note. -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 11:57, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::::::I see that it's been reverted, but I still don't understand why people were defending the change to 'elk'. I agree that elk are a species of deer, so if that is so, then the broader term should be chosen over the more specific term. What I mean is, if it is an elk, then it's a deer, and if it isn't an elk, then it's still a deer. And if we're not using what most players call it or the official wiki for a standard, then what do we use? Documenting what something is requires either the former (the consensus of a majority) or the latter (an official source); there is nothing else to rely on. Kokuou 21:54, 21 October 2007 (UTC) :::::::I thought only one single person was defending "elk", namely korytyler21. His wording was also suggesting that elks are NOT deers, which I believed to be the problem (since then he would reject choosing the "broader term" since he'd disagree Deer being a broader term). -User:PanSola (talk to the ) 22:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC) ::::::::Wow... y'all really know how to make a big problem out of nothing. O_O RoseOfKali 06:20, 22 October 2007 (UTC) You cant be serious This is mainly due to the fact that new players have a hard time healing, interrupting, getting out of the AoE, and just playing well in general. thats opinion, and false. rewrite tbh. :I think it is hilarious and honest. Kudoz2u 19:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)